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HN Theater has aggregated all Hacker News stories and comments that mention Vox's video "China is erasing its border with Hong Kong". YetanotherHackerNewsdigest.com HNTheater | HNAcademy | HNBooks Rankings: thisweek · month(nov/dec) · year(2021) · alltime digests · search HackerNewsCommentson ChinaiserasingitsborderwithHongKong Vox · Youtube · 14 HNpoints · 6 HNcomments HNTheaterhasaggregatedallHackerNewsstoriesandcommentsthatmentionVox'svideo"ChinaiserasingitsborderwithHongKong". YoutubeSummary Theborderhasanexpirationdate.FollowJohnnyonInstagram:https://www.instagram.com/johnnywharris/FollowtheVoxBorderswatchpage:https://www.facebook.com/VoxBorders/BecomeaVideoLabmember!http://bit.ly/video-labJoiningtheVideoLabisthebestwaytohelpusmakemoreofthevideosyoulove,likeVoxBorders.Andyougetaccesstoatonofperkstoo!Learnmore:http://bit.ly/video-labWithoriginalmusicbyTomFoxhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUIM14Vyndaq8MuDeW7BsIgWhenBritainhandedHongKongbacktoChinain1997,ChineseleadersagreedthatHongKongwouldbeabletokeepitseconomicandpoliticalsystems,includingsomeofthecivilfreedomsdeniedtoChina’scitizensonthemainland,forthenext50years.AlthoughHongKongstillhasnearly30yearsofsemi-autonomyleft,Chinahasstartedtighteningitsgrip,andmanybelieveitischippingawayatHongKong’sfreedoms.Inthisepisode,IexplorehowHongKongisdealingwiththeloomingdeadlineandChina’sprematuremoves.VoxBordersisaninternationaldocumentaryseriesbyEmmy-nominatedproducerJohnnyHarrisexploringlifeattheedgeofnations.Formore,visitvox.com/borders.Watchourfullvideocatalog:http://goo.gl/IZONyEFollowVoxonFacebook:http://goo.gl/U2g06oOrTwitter:http://goo.gl/XFrZ5H HNTheaterRankings Thiscourseisunranked· viewtoprecommendedcourses HackerNewsStoriesandComments Allthecommentsandstoriespostedto HackerNewsthatreferencethis video. ⬐ Jun12,2019 · JumpCrisscrosson HongKongPoliceFireTearGas,RubberBulletsatProtesters >Couldsomeoneexplainmywhytheyreallyprotest?Voxrecentlymadeagoodvideoonthetopic[1].In1984,BeijingagreedwithBritainthatafterthehandoffin1997,ChinawouldrespectHongKong’spoliticalsystem[2].Hence,DengXiaoping’s“onecountry,twosystems”[3].Beijingisbreakingthatagreement.Italreadytriedabduction[4].NowitwantstobeabletoextraditeanyonetoChinatobetriedinChinesecourts.Thisisproblematic.HongKong,likeJapan,Taiwan,BritainandAmerica,hasanindependentjudiciarywherethegovernmentmustproveitscase.SoifadissidentistriedinHongKong,prosecutorshavetoprovetheircaseinarelativelyfaircourt.Chinesecourtsarepartyinstruments.(ConsiderthatthereisnowaytoenforceHongKong’srightsunderthe1984agreement.)Undertheproposedlegislation,saiddissidentwouldbeshippedtoChinawherearubber-stampconvictioncouldbesought.[1]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8[2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_sovereignty_over...[3]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems[4]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappear... ⬐ NedIsakoff TheagreementbetweenChinaandUKwasfor50years,sobyrightChinacanstartchangingthingstotallyin2047.SotheissueisChinais28yearstooearly.Whythedownvote?TheWikipediaarticleevenbacksitup:"TheBasicLawensuredHongKongwillretainitscapitalisteconomicsystemandowncurrency(theHongKongDollar),legalsystem,legislativesystem,andpeople'srightsandfreedomforfiftyyears,asaspecialadministrativeregion(SAR)ofChina."--https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems ⬐ JumpCrisscross >theissueisChinais28yearstooearlyYouarecorrectandshouldn’tbegettingdownvoted.Ileftoutthetimelinebecauseitisextraneous.Beijingmadeanagreement,isbreakingit,andinbreakingitrevealsthelawlessnesswhichHongKongfears. ⬐ digianarchist InthatfirstvideohestatesHongKongwasleasedtoBritainfor99years.Notexactlytrue.HongKongIslandwasseizedlikeGibraltar.OnlytheNewTerritorieswereleased.(thefootageadmittedlycorrectsthis)."TheleaseconsistedoftherestofKowloonsouthoftheShenzhenRiverand230islands,whichbecameknownastheNewTerritories.TheBritishformallytookpossessionon16April1899."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Hong_Kong#Growth_and_e... ⬐ fennecfoxen Notethat,besidesdissidentsandtheobvioushumanrightsrisks,majorinternationalfirmshaveoftenusedHongKongasaregionalheadquartersfortheirSoutheastAsianbusiness(orjustasaheadquartersgenerally).Thisisalsothreatened,asthesebusinessesthriveinanenvironmentdefinedbycapitalism,propertyrights,andtheruleoflaw—ratherthangovernment-runenterprise,propertyseizure,andthewhimsofChina'srulers.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/business/hong-kong-china-...https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/11/asia/hong-kong-extradition-ch...https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/labor-business-alarmed-b... ⬐ pbalau >NowitwantstobeabletoextraditeanyonetoChinatobetriedinChinesecourts.That'snottrue.>ItallowsforextraditionrequestsfromauthoritiesinmainlandChina,TaiwanandMacauforsuspectsaccusedofseriouscriminalwrongdoingsuchasmurderandrape.Therequestswouldthenbedecidedonacase-by-casebasis.[1][1]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48591001 ⬐ gvhst Case-by-casebasisisaslipperyslopetouncheckedpower.Let’salsonotpretendthatChinahasn’tfabricatedchargesagainstthoseitdoesn’tlike(e.g.AiWeiwei’s“taxfraud”).Lastly,assadasitisfreedomhasaprice(notjustinthemilitarysenseasoftenechoedstateside).Sometimesthatpriceisdeathwithoutwhateveryonewouldcalledjustice(whichinthiscaseisextradition).AbrahamLincoln’swords,youwillhavesituationswherepeoplewillbe“sacrificesonthealtaroffreedom.” ⬐ cycrutchfield YouwouldhavetobeacredulousfooltoexpectthattheChinesegovernmentwouldnotmanufacture“criminalwrongdoings”forpoliticalpurposes.Therefore,theGPpostisessentiallycorrect. ⬐ calyth2018 https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/english/bills/brief/b201903... ⬐ knolax HowisChinatheoneviolatingtheagreementwhenit'stheHongKongLegislativeCouncilpassingtheextraditionlaw.Imeaneventheprotestersareprotestingagainst__their__legislativecouncil.[0][0]"forcedthecity’slegislaturetopostponedebateonawidelyunpopularbill" ⬐ chibg10 TheHKlegislatureandexecutivearen'tdemocraticallyelected,butdirectlyorindirectlychosenbyBeijing.Moreover,Beijing'scontroloverthelegislaturewasincreasedwhenthey"reinterpreted"theagreementandremovedseveralpro-democraticlegislatorsafewyearsago.Beijingwantsthislawpassed,Beijingcontrolsthepoliticalfutureofthosewhowiththepowertopassthebill.TheHKcitizenryopposethebill. ⬐ surge Chinaistheonepushingthelaw.InfluencinganderodingtheHKpoliticalsystemtomakeitsotheyhavemoresayoverwhatHKpeoplecansayanddo.They'vebeenslowlytakingfreedomsawayfromHKsincetheXiJinpinggotintoofficeanddeclaredhimselfPresidentforlife. ⬐ JumpCrisscross >HowisChinatheoneviolatingtheagreementwhenit'stheHongKongLegislativeCouncilpassingtheextraditionlawChinaselectsthechiefexecutive[1].OppositionmemberswererecentlyremovedfromtheLegislativeCouncil[2].Thelawiswildlyunpopular.[1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/24/hong-kong-sele...[2]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/14/hong-kong-pro-... ⬐ ptah IamunsurewhybeijingwouldbeobligatedtomakeanypromisestoUKastheyareessentiallyjusttakingbacktheirpropertyafteraleaseended? ⬐ fennecfoxen ChinamadethesepromisesinparttoassuretheresidentsofHongKong(andinternationalobservers)thattheirrightswouldberespected,andalsotopreventeconomiccollapsecausedbybusinessesdeemingtheislandanunsafeplacetodobusiness. ⬐ NedIsakoff WhatmostpeoplecallHongKongconsistsofthreemajorareas:HongKongIsland,Kowloon,andNewTerritories.HongKongIsland(wheremajorityofpeoplelive)wasgiventoUKwithnoleaselimits.KowloonandNewTerritorieswereleasedtoUKfor99yearsin1898.So,intheoryUKonlyneededtoreturnKowloonandNewTerritories.Ofcourse,thiswasn’tpractical.It’slikegivingManhattantoanothercountrybutkeepingQueensandBrooklyn.Soin1994UKagreetoreturnall3(HongKongIsland,Kowloon,andNewTerritories)in1997. ⬐ larrysalibra KowloonsouthofBoundarystreetwasalsocededinperpetuitytotheUKin1860.Kowloonnorthofboundarystreetwasleasedfor99yearsin1898.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_Street ⬐ NeedMoreTea WelltheydidsignaninternationallybindingagreementoverhowHongKongwouldbetreatedafterhandover.Theyalreadymadethepromises,andlodgedthemwiththeUN.Nowtheyarebreakingthosetreaties. ⬐ Angostura Toensureasmoothtransferandacertaindegreeofself-determinationforthepeoplewholivedthere,werereasonsablycontentwiththeexistingset-upandwouldhavebeenmostunhappyiftheUKhadsimplywasheditshandsanddisapeared. ⬐ None None ⬐ y2kenny BecausetheysignedtheSino-BritishJointDeclaration:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration ⬐ twic Theyweren'tjusttakingbacktheirpropertyafteraleaseended.TheUKhadleasedtheNewTerritories,buttheKowloonpeninsulaandHongKongislandhadbeenceded.Whentheleaseexpired,theUKcouldhavegivenbacktheNewTerritoriesandkepttherest,butitwasagreedtohandoverthewholelot.Thatagreementwaspartofadealwhichalsoincluded"onecountry,twosystems". ⬐ dehrmann >Beijingisbreakingthatagreement.YouforgotChinahavingtoapprovecandidatesinHongKongelections:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32397179 ⬐ Jun09,2019 · jhanschooon ‘NotoChinaextradition’–HongKongprotestagainstcontroversialnewlaw GreatpointregardingGDP.Voxdidapiece[1]thatpointedoutthatwiththerecentriseofhighlyeconomicallyproductivecitiesinthemainlandlikeShenzhen,themainlandisgettingmoreemboldenedinprojectingitscontroloverHK.[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8 ⬐ Jun09,2019 · CamelCaseNameon HundredsofthousandstaketoHongKongstreetsagainstcontroversialbill Foranyonelikemewhowaslookingforsomebackgroundonthis,onReddit,someonelinkedtoaVoxvideoentitled"ChinaiserasingitsborderwithHongKong"[0].At15minutes,it'sacaptivatingintroductiontotheconflict.Anothervideo(6minutes)youmightbeinterestedinbyVoxis"China'strilliondollarplantodominateglobaltrade"[1],whichisonChinaBeltandRoadInitiative(BRI).[0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvXROXiIpvQEdit:Onegreatpassagefromthefirstvideo[0]at11:29says:"The[umbrellamovement]protestdidn'tchangethegovernment'smindanditdidn'timmediatelychangeanythinginHongKong.ButthisspectacleofyoungpeoplerisinguptodefendtheirrightsfromthecentralgovernmentofChinadidsparkapoliticalawakeningamongthemanyinthecitywhohadneverbeforepaidattention.'Ithinkpost-umbrellamovementwasthefirsttimethatthemiddleclasscameoutandvotedindroves,andvotedfortheoppositionforce.'-HKResident" ⬐ y2kenny Thisshouldgiveyouagoodoverview:China’sTrojanhorse:HongKong’snewextraditionarrangementputsforeignersatrisk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUl-J0oh3k0 ⬐ chii ThevoxvideopaintstheBeltandRoadInitiativeinanegativelight-whichifeeliswrong.Whyshouldn'tChinabeallowedtoinvestandgainsoftpower?Whyshouldn'ttheybeallowedtomakedealswithcountriestheUSdeems'undemocratic'? ⬐ AnimalMuppet Ifyou'remakingdealswithagovernmentthatisundemocratic,you'remakingadealwiththegovernment,butnotwiththepeople.Atthatpoint,thedealisprobablygoingtobeonethatbenefitsthegovernment,butnotthepeople.Countriesdothat,whenitisintheirbestinteresttodoso.ButtheUS(rightly)getscriticismfordoingsuchthings.Ifit'srighttocriticizetheUSforsuchactions,it'salsorighttocriticizeChinaforthem. ⬐ Youden >Ifyou'remakingdealswithagovernmentthatisundemocratic,you'remakingadealwiththegovernment,butnotwiththepeople.Ithinkabetterwaytophrase"agovernmentthatisundemocratic"as"adictatorship".TheideathatdemocracyistheonlysystemofgovernmentthatcanpossiblyrepresentthepeopleisahorrendouslyAmericanviewoftheworld.Toshowanexamplethatcountersthe"everythingthatisn'tdemocracyisoppressive"claimsIusuallyhear,havealookatLichtenstein(whichadmittedlyispartlydemocraticbutisalsoaconstitutionalmonarchy),wherethepeoplevotedtogivethemonarchy_more_powerandrefusedtocurbitinareferendum:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18649156 ⬐ JumpCrisscross >wherethepeoplevotedtogivethemonarchy_more_powerandrefusedtocurbitinareferendumThisisdemocracy.Thepeoplevotedforastrongexecutiveandtoberepresentedbythemonarchy.NobodygetsthatvoteinUzbekistan. ⬐ Youden It'sademocraticprocessyesbutthecountryisstillaconstitutionalandlargelyfunctionalmonarchy.Democracyisanindicatorofwhetherthepeoplearerepresentedbutitisnotthedefinition.Ithinkabetterindicationofwhetheragovernmentrepresentsitspeopleiswhetherthegovernmentactsaccordingtothepeople'swishes.AtoneendofthespectrumisSwitzerland,wherethepeoplecanchoosetodirectlyoverrideanygovernmentpolicybyreferendum(orproposeanactionoftheirown).AttheotherendofthespectrumisagovernmentlikeNorthKorea,wherethepeoplehavezerosay.SomewhereinthemiddleyouseemostWesterndemocracies. ⬐ JumpCrisscross >abetterindicationofwhetheragovernmentrepresentsitspeopleiswhetherthegovernmentactsaccordingtothepeople'swishesHowdoyoumeasurethelatter?That’stheessenceofdemocracy.Therearemanydemocraticsystems.Constitutionalrepublicsaredemocraticbecausethemonarchmustanswertothepublic.Dictatorshipsfeaturingleadersforlifewithlimitedoptionsforsideliningorrecallingarenotdemocratic.ThelatterdescribesNorthKorea,ChinaandcertainAfricanandcentralAsianstates. ⬐ eastendguy YourLichtensteinexampleisnonsense.Liechtensteinisnot"partlydemocratic"butfullydemocratic.IthasamonarchasHeadofState(liketheUKandothers),andanelectedparliamentthatenactsthelaw.Itisalsoadirectdemocracy,wherevoterscanproposeandenactconstitutionalamendmentsandlegislationindependentlyofthelegislature.Thefactthattheprincegotafewmorevetopowersin2003doesnotchangeanythingaboutthefactthatitisdemocracy,and-equallyimportant-peoplehavefullfreedomofspeech. ⬐ NeedMoreTea It'sbeenreferredtoas"debttrapdiplomacy".Here'sapiecefromlastmonthreportingthataraftofcountriesincludingTurkeyhaverefusedtoattendlatestsummit.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/25/belt-and-road-... ⬐ tepidandroid Alternativeviewpoint:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/opinion/china-belt-road-i... ⬐ Farradfahren Ifitwerecolonialism,thatwouldbeastrangething,becauseonlywesterncountrycanproducecolonialism,whilevictimcountrysandsocialisticcountryscanhavepuppet-statesandliberateothercountrysbutnevercolonializethem.TheHMSNarrativerunningagroundagain,threateningtosinkoncemoreintothesaltywaves.Itsanotherroundofthegreatestgame,funfornewandoldplayers. ⬐ owens99 Thanksforsharing.Keypoint:>Yes,debtisontheriseinthedevelopingworld,andChineseoverseaslendingis,forthefirsttime,apartofthestory.ButanumberofusacademicswhohavestudiedChina’spracticesindetailhavefoundscantevidenceofapatternindicatingthatChinesebanks,actingatthegovernment’sbehest,aredeliberatelyover-lendingorfundingloss-makingprojectstosecurestrategicadvantagesforChina.>ThemainexampleofthesepurportedploysistheHambantotaPortinsouthernSriLanka:ThegovernmenthandedcontrolovertheporttoaChinesecompanyin2017afterstrugglingtomakeitsloanpaymentstoChina.Butthat’saspecialcase,anditiswidelymisunderstood.>Chinadoesnotpublishdetailsaboutitsoverseaslending,buttheChina-AfricaResearchInitiativeatJohnsHopkinsUniversity(whichIdirect)hascollectedinformationonmorethan1,000ChineseloansinAfricabetween2000and2017,totalingmorethan$143billion.BostonUniversity’sGlobalDevelopmentPolicyCenterhasidentifiedandtrackedmorethan$140billioninChineseloanstoLatinAmericaandtheCaribbeansince2005.>Basedonthefindingsofbothinstitutes,itseemsthattherisksofB.R.I.areoftenoverstatedormischaracterized. ⬐ NeedMoreTea YetsomethinghasputoffafairlylargenumberofnationsfromjoiningthelatesteventintheBRIinitiative. ⬐ y2kenny Accordingtothewiki,BRIstartedaround2013[1]sohowcomeloansmadepriortothatbeingcountedtowardsBRI?Myrecollectionisthat,priortoBRI/earlierloandiplomacyfromChina,thestrategicgoalwasforinfluenceintheUNagainstTaiwan(checkbookdiplomacy.)Sothegoalsarecompletelydifferent.'Taiwan’scurrentforeignrelationsbindstemsfromadealbrokeredin2008.This“diplomatictruce”guaranteesthatneitherChinanorTaiwanwillpursueformaldiplomaticrelationswithacountrythathasalreadyrecognizedoneortheother.Beijingcallsittheone-Chinapolicy,anditforcesnationstochoosebetweenitandTaipei,withBeijingincreasinglycomingoutthemoreappealingchoice.'[2]Lumpingdataoverstrategicchangeseemslikeapoorresearchtome.[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative#Histo...[2]https://www.voanews.com/a/once-influential-in-africa-taiwan-... ⬐ Leary WorldbankanalysisofBRIwhichshowsthatBRIisanetpositivetotheworld:" BRIwillpotentiallyhavealargeeffectontradeandwelfareformanycountries ▪Allcountriesintheworldexperienceadecreaseintradecosts ▪Notallsectors/countrieswillgainbutpotentialaggregateeffectislargelypositiveButmanypolicybarriersstillremaininplace.PotentialgainsofBRIwouldbeenlargedbycomplementaryreforms ▪Needtoreduceborderdelays,tradebarriersandFDIrestrictions ▪Butalsoboostinvestorprotection,openpublicprocurement,ensureprivatesectorparticipationEconomicandnon-economicrisksassociatedtoBRIprojectsneedtobemanaged ▪Publicdebtsustainability,governance,environmentalandsocialconcerns ▪Coordinationproblems,lackofdata,poortransparencymagnifythesechallenges"[1]http://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/501961539875310440/Michele-B... ⬐ Apr28,2019 · cirrus-cloudson ThousandstaketoHongKongstreetstoprotestnewextraditionlaws Voxhasanexcellentvideocalled'ChinaiserasingitsborderwithHongKong'whichdetailshowtheChinesegovernmentistighteningit'scontrolofHongKong.It'swellworthawatch.Here'sthevideodescription:"WhenBritainhandedHongKongbacktoChinain1997,ChineseleadersagreedthatHongKongwouldbeabletokeepitseconomicandpoliticalsystems,includingsomeofthecivilfreedomsdeniedtoChina’scitizensonthemainland,forthenext50years.AlthoughHongKongstillhasnearly30yearsofsemi-autonomyleft,Chinahasstartedtighteningitsgrip,andmanybelieveitischippingawayatHongKong’sfreedoms."https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8 ⬐ odiroot What'sHongKong,youmeansouthernpartofGreaterShenzhen?/s ⬐ macspoofing TheonlythingkeepingHongKong'ssovereignty(suchasitis)isTaiwan.ThereissomeunderstandingontheChinesesidethatafullannexationoftheterritorywouldstrengthenindependencehardlinersinTaiwan-whichistherealprizebecauseTaiwanisabsolutelycriticalforChinesenationaldefense.Ifitwasn'tforthat,HongKongwouldhavebeenwhollyannexedbynow. ⬐ everdev WhyisTaiwanabsolutelycriticaltoChinesedefense? ⬐ attempt39 FullcontroloftheTaiwanstrait. Breakthefirstislandchain. Directaccesstothepacificocean. Immediateaccesstodeepwaters,whichtheylack,andwhichisanadvantageforsubmarines. ⬐ macspoofing Allyouhavetodoislookatthemap.IfTaiwanbecomesanindependentstateandanAmericanally,theChinesePacificcoastwouldbeencircledbySouthKorea,Japan,TaiwanandPhilippines-allAmericanallies. ⬐ vaughnegut Taiwanisanunsinkableaircraftcarrier.Itprovidesamassiveplatformfromwhichtoattackthemainland.Maintainingcontroldeniesthisadvantagetoanyattackers. ⬐ StreamBright ChinesearmypracticedtakingcontrolofTaiwanforyears.Thiswillbetheirfirstmoveinanyarmedconflict. ⬐ Ankaios Whatattackers?Chinahashadnukesformanydecades.Mutuallyassureddestructionwillpreventattacks.Giventhat,whyagainisTaiwancriticalforChina'sdefense? ⬐ dionian soisjapan,isitnot? ⬐ taobility TherearesomanyunsinkableaircraftcarriersaroundChina.Taiwanisnottheonlyone,andalsoTaiwanislandistoofarawayfromUSA,theonlypossibleopponentofChina.Sooncethewarisstarting,ChinaisveryeasytooccupyTaiwanbeforeUSAcanprovidethesupport. ⬐ pimmen TaiwanisactuallyveryclosetotwoveryimportantUSallies,thePhilippinesandJapan.It’salotharderandmoreexpensivetolaunchanattackfromLuzonorOkinawathanitistolaunchitfromTaiwan. ⬐ taobility Iwouldn'tcountPhilippinesasUS'salleynow.Andalso,TaiwanStraitjust150KMwide,andhowlongbetweenLuzonandOkinawa? ⬐ scottlocklin It'sahellofalotclosertoChinathantoPhilippinesorJapan.FWIIWitwashistoricallyusedbyforceswhichthreatenedChinesesovereignty,includingJapan.SinceChineseleadershipactuallyreadshistoryinsteadofmakingstuffupastheygoalong,asWesternersdo,that'sprobablywhyit'ssuchasorespotforthem. ⬐ attempt39 InvadingTaiwanwouldrequirehugeamountsoftroopandmaterial.Thosethingshavetobeenmovedweeksifnotmonthsinadvanceandcanbeeasilypickedupbysatellites.Addtothatthatyoucan'tsimplylandyoursoldiersanywhereontheshore,thereareonlyafewlandingspotsthatcanbeusedandwhichareofcourseheavilydefended. Also,thetwolandsareclosetoeachothersoTaiwancansendmissilestothemainlandandcauseheavydamagetothecitiesonChina'seastcoast. Finallytheweather,whichaccordingtosomepeople[0][1]offersonlytwoshortwindowsduringwhichaninvasionislikelytonotfail.AnotherthingtokeepinmindisthatTaiwanconsistsofabout70%ofmountainousareas,i.etheperfectterrainforanorganizedresistance.InvadingTaiwanisbutaneasytaskanditisbelievedtobeanendeavorthatwouldsurpasstheD-day.[0]https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=mzwGDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT117&l... [1]https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/taiwan-can-win-a-war-wi... ⬐ wbl TaiwanisnotcriticalforChinesedefense.Whowantstopickafightwithagiantwellfundedarmy? ⬐ macspoofing Justlookatthemap.IfTaiwanweretobecomeindependentandanAmericanally,thatwouldmeantheentireChinesepacificcoastwouldbeencircledbyAmericanallies-SouthKorea,Japan,Taiwan,Philippines. ⬐ CogitoCogito TheROCandthePRC_are_independentcountries.Theydon'tsaytheyare,butclearlytheyare.ThePRCalreadybasically(thatqualifierprobablyisn'tnecessary)isanallyoftheUnitedStates.Idon'tdisagreewithyourpoint(Chinesefearsofencirclement),butthewayyoupresent.It'salreadythecaseandChinaistryingtoinvadeTaiwantochangeit.It'sallconsistentwithChina'sattempttophraseTaiwanasbeingseparatistasopposedtothetruthwhichisthatChinaisbeingmilitaristicandimperialistic.It'sdangerousdouble-speakandneedstostop. ⬐ macspoofing >TheROCandthePRC_are_independentcountries.Youknowthat'snottrue.>Theydon'tsaytheyare,butclearlytheyare.Sowhydon'ttheysaythat?>ThePRCalreadybasically(thatqualifierprobablyisn'tnecessary)isanallyoftheUnitedStates.AndwhatistheUnitedStates'positionontheindependenceofTaiwan?>It'sdangerousdouble-speakandneedstostop.Sometimeslanguagecanreflectreality,andtherealityisthatTaiwanisquasi-independent. ⬐ CogitoCogito >Youknowthat'snottrue.ThePRCandtheROChaveseparateeconomies,militaries,governments,currencies.Theyengageininterationaltradeseparately,organizetelecommunicationsseparately,theyissuetheirownpassportsandtheyarerecognizedseparately.ThelandcontrolledbythePRCandthelandcontrolledbytheROChavebeenstablefor70years.Thosetwolandmasseshavebeenunitedunderonegovernmentforabout4yearsinthelast125.Tosaythattheyarenottwoseparatecountriesistotallydelusional.>AndwhatistheUnitedStates'positionontheindependenceofTaiwan?Whatdoesthatmatter?Thefactsonthegroundarethattheyareseparatecountries.TheUSpositionthatthePRCwasn'tacountryinthe50sand60sdidn'tmagicallymakeitthecase.>Sometimeslanguagecanreflectreality,andtherealityisthatTaiwanisquasi-independent.Youclearlydon'tliveinreality. ⬐ macspoofing Thisisgettingsilly.You'rebeingdisingenuousandIdon'tknowwhy.Everythingyousaidistrue,andyetyouknowthatisn'ttheentirestory.YouknowthatTaiwanisspecial.Itisn'tlikeothersovereignstatesasithasnoUNrepresentationandisnotrecognizedbythevastmajorityofstatesanditisclaimedbyPRCasitsdependent.ThepoliticalstatusofTaiwaniscomplicated(toputitmildly).Thestatusquoissomewhattoleratedbyallparties,butIwouldn'tbetthatyou'llhaveanother70yearsofit.AsChinagrowsintoasuperpower,IdoubtTaiwanwillbeabletomaintainwhateverindependenceithasnow-butwe'llsee.Yourlineofargumentalsodoesn'tactuallyaddresstheoriginalpoint,whichisthatChinatoleratestheindependenceofHongKongbecauseithasitssightssetonTaiwan-whichistherealprize.Fromthatperspective,itdoesn'tmatterhowTaiwanseesitself. ⬐ CogitoCogito Whatyousayisirrelevant.ThePRCmayannextheROCsomeday(militarilyorbyothermeans),butthatwouldn'tchangethefactthatbetween1949anduntilthathappensthatthereweretwoseparatecountries.TheUNdoesn'tmakecountriesit'sjustaforumthatsomegovernmentsareinvitedtobeapartof.ThepoliticalstatusoftheROCisjustassimpleasthatasthePRC.Tosayotherwiseiswhatactuallyisdisingenuous.>Yourlineofargumentalsodoesn'tactuallyaddresstheoriginalpoint,whichisthatChinatoleratestheindependenceofHongKongbecauseithasitssightssetonTaiwan-whichistherealprize.YestakingovertheROCistherealprizebecauserightnowitis_independent_andthePRCwantsthattochange.Thementalsomersaultsyoudotoavoidsayingthisobvioustruthismindboggling.>Fromthatperspective,itdoesn'tmatterhowTaiwanseesitself.Thisistrue!TheROCclaimstheterritoriesofthemainlandaswellasMongoliainitsconstitution.Thisisdelusional.SimilarlythePRCclaimsthemainlandandtheROC'sterritoriesasitsown.Thisisalsodelusional.Itmattershowneithersideofficiallyseesthemselves.They_are_twoseparatecountries.Whycan'tyoujustadmitthatthePRChasimperialisticambitionsandtriestomakeupjustificationstomakethePRClooklikeitisintheright?Whyareyousohellbenttoignorereality? ⬐ adventured >Whowantstopickafightwithagiantwellfundedarmy?Historyislitteredwithmodernexamples.TheUSColonies(BritishEmpire).LatinAmerica(Spain,Portugal,Netherlands,British,French).TheVietCong(US,France).Finland(Russia).Iraqiresistancegroups(US).TheTaliban,Mujahideen(US,Russia).NorthKorea(UN).Ukraine(Russia).Hezbollah(Israel).Yugoslavia(NATO).Emus(Australia).Everygiantwellfundedarmyhasalsolostatsomepoint.ForChina,it'sidealtoremoveTaiwanasastaginggroundthatcouldbeheldbyanyopposition.Considerascenariowhereit'sNATOcountries+Japan+SouthKorea+Taiwan,+Australia+NewZealandvsChinainamassiveconflict(oranysimilarvariation).ItwouldbefarbettertowhollycontroltheislandofTaiwanthannot. ⬐ wbl IstakingChinaworthlosingLA?OrSeattle?Theyhavenukes. ⬐ Apr28,2019 · ryder9on ThousandstaketoHongKongstreetstoprotestnewextraditionlaws GreatvideobyVoxonthetopichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8 ChinaiserasingitsborderwithHongKong[video] Jan31,2019 · 14points, 0comments · submittedby cirrus-clouds ⬐ Oct31,2018 · nestorDon WhyDemocraciesAreTurningAgainstChineseInfluence VoxhassomeverygoodvideosonHongKongandoneinparticularonChina'scurrentapproachtotheintegrationofthecity:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8 HNTheaterisanindependentprojectandisnotoperatedby YCombinatororanyofthevideohostingplatformslinkedtoonthis site. ~[email protected];laksdfhjdhksalkfjmorethingsyahnd.com ~ PrivacyPolicy ~ Loremipsumdolorsitamet, consecteturadipisicingelit,seddoeiusmodtemporincididuntutlaboreet doloremagnaaliqua.Utenimadminimveniam,quisnostrudexercitation ullamcolaborisnisiutaliquipexeacommodoconsequat.Duisauteiruredolor inreprehenderitinvoluptatevelitessecillumdoloreeufugiatnulla pariatur.Excepteursintoccaecatcupidatatnonproident,suntinculpaqui officiadeseruntmollitanimidestlaborum.