"Could you please help me" vs "Could you help me please"

On my polite-o-meter, the two sentences score very close: "Could you help me, please?", "Could you please help me?". EnglishLanguageLearnersStackExchangeisaquestionandanswersiteforspeakersofotherlanguageslearningEnglish.Itonlytakesaminutetosignup. Signuptojointhiscommunity Anybodycanaskaquestion Anybodycananswer Thebestanswersarevotedupandrisetothetop Home Public Questions Tags Users Unanswered Teams StackOverflowforTeams –Collaborateandshareknowledgewithaprivategroup. CreateafreeTeam WhatisTeams? Teams CreatefreeTeam Teams Q&Aforwork Connectandshareknowledgewithinasinglelocationthatisstructuredandeasytosearch. Learnmore "Couldyoupleasehelpme"vs"Couldyouhelpmeplease" AskQuestion Asked 7years,9monthsago Active 3years,8monthsago Viewed 181ktimes 19 13 Whenaskingforsomethingpolitelywhichsentenceisabetter/properchoice? Couldyoupleasehelpme? or Couldyouhelpmeplease? phrase-choice Share Improvethisquestion Follow askedFeb27'14at14:08 dvdmndvdmn 37511goldbadge44silverbadges88bronzebadges 1 2 PleaseNote:Theremaynotbeadefinitiveanswertothisquestion,butIthinkitstillhasvalue.Theanswermaybecomplex,context-based,includingnon-verbalcommunication,relationshipandsituationbetweenspeakerandlistener,etc.Eachanswergivesadifferentperspective.Forthisquestion,onemaylearnsomegoodideasbyreadingalltheanswersratherthananyone.** – CoolHandLouis Feb28'14at1:07 Addacomment  |  8Answers 8 Active Oldest Votes 14 Onmypolite-o-meter,thetwosentencesscoreveryclose:"Couldyouhelpme,please?","Couldyoupleasehelpme?".Theformersoundsmoreformal.Usewhicheveroneyouwantandyou'llbemorepolitethanmostpeople. Thefollowingdataisaveryroughindicationthat"please-on-the-end"mightbemorecommon:1 GoogleSearch"Couldyouhelpme*please":40,000,000results. GoogleSearch"Couldyoupleasehelpme*":11,000,000results. 1Googleresultsmaynotbeaccurateatall.Iwillbereviewingthis.Anotheranswersuggestsadifferentresult. Sentencestructurehasanimpactoninformationemphasis: Sentencelengthtendstorequire"please"tobemovedtothebeginning.Considerthefollowing:"Couldyouhelpmefindmylight-brownworkshoesthatIjustbought,please?""Couldyoupleasehelpmefindmylight-brownworkshoesthatIjustbought?"Thelatterintroducespolitenessearlierwhilealsofocusingthesentenceontheimportantinformation. Otheranswersinthisthreadprovidegreatanalysesonformalityandurgency.Butlength-of-sentencecanbeanopposingforce.While"please"tendstobemoreformalandpoliteattheendofsentences,alongersentencemaybemorenaturalsoundingwith"please"movedclosertothebeginning.Formoreinformation,seeGoogleSearch:sentenceinformation,clarity,andfocus. Howtolearnallofthis? Therearealotofgreatanswersinthisthread(Isuggestyoureadthemtoo!),butthatcanbeoverwhelming!Usageishighlydependentoncontext.Ratherthantryingtolearn1000rulesonusage,Isuggestthatyougainsubtleusageskillsnaturallythroughobservationandexperience. Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedFeb28'14at2:39 answeredFeb27'14at17:09 CoolHandLouisCoolHandLouis 7,99922goldbadges2121silverbadges4040bronzebadges 1 3 Google'sresultestimatesaren'trealdata.Theydon'teventrytomakethemaccurate.I'mafraidyour40Mand11Mnumbersshouldbediscardedratherthantakenwithagrainofsalt. – user230 Feb28'14at2:19 Addacomment  |  12 Therearealotofsubtletieshiddeninthedifferentwordsandwordordersmentionedhere.Changingtheplaceinthesentenceofthewordpleasechangesitsemphasis;roughly,theearlierthewordcomesinthesentence,thestrongertherequestforhelp.NoticeRayB'spointthatputtingpleaseattheendofthesentencesoundsmorepolite.Thisisbecauseit'sabitlessinsistent. Contextisveryimportantaswell;amoreinsistentrequestforhelpcangowithamorepressingneedforitandnotbeimpolite.Ifforexample,achildcameuptoastrangerandsaid"Couldyoupleasehelpme?I'mlost."thechildwouldprobablybethoughtofasverywell-mannered,keepingacoolheadinafrighteningsituation.Ontheotherhand,ifashopperaskedaclerk"couldyoupleasehelpme?"insteadof"couldyouhelpme,please?"itwouldtypicallyconveyasenseofirritationathavingbeenmadetowaittoolong.Isaytypicallybecauseonecanalwaysusetoneofvoicetochangethis. Now,"wouldyouhelpme,please"soundsbitlessinsistenttomethanusingcould,Isupposebecauseit'saskingifoneiswillingtohelpratherthanifoneisableto."Won'tyouhelpme"usuallydoesn'tgowith"please"sinceitisreallyaskingifthepersonisunwillingtohelpeventhoughheshould.(Edit:Inotetheexceptiontothisof"won'tyoupleeease,pleasehelpme"fromtheBeatlessongmentionedinanotheranswer.Whenyoudousewon'tyoupleaseinthissense,itisparticularlyinsistent.There'saflavoralmostofbegginginthesong.) Afunnystorycomestomind.IusedtoknowaguywhohadspentanumberofyearsasafishermaninMaine,andhetoldthisstory.Oneevening,hewasintheboathousewithsomeofhisfriends,andtheradiocameon: Jim? Hey,Phil,what'sup? Notmuch.Youdoinganythingrightnow? Nope,justsittingherewithJoeandGeorge. Well,couldyoustopoutandpickmeup,please? Sure,whereareyou? Aboutthreemilesout,takingonwater. Thereasonit'sfunnyisbecausethelevelofinsistenceforhelpwaswaylessthantheneedforit. Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedFeb27'14at22:12 answeredFeb27'14at17:06 BobRodesBobRodes 13.6k1919silverbadges3636bronzebadges 4 2 +1Onthisanswer.Ireallylikeyouranalysisoncontext.AndI'msureyou'llagreethateven"Won'tyoupleasehelpme"expressesyetanothersentimentexactlybecausethey"don'tgotogether"asyousaid.Andthat'sagreatstory.Theguyonthesinkingboatusestheformal,cool-headed,non-insistentformof"please"becauseheiscool-headedandmostlikelyhasagreatsenseofperspectiveandhumoraboutlife.Ilearnedmuchfromyouranswer,thanks! – CoolHandLouis Feb27'14at20:00 2 "roughly,theearlierthewordcomesinthesentence,thestrongertherequestforhelp"Idon'tthinkthat'satalltrue."Pleasecouldyouhelpme?","Couldyoupleasehelpme?"and"Couldyouhelpmeplease?"whenspokeninafairlyneutraltoneareallsimplerequestsforhelp;whenspokenwithstrongemphasison"please",allcansoundequallydesperate. – DavidRicherby Feb27'14at23:01 2 @David:Perhapsyoumissed"Isaytypicallybecauseonecanalwaysusetoneofvoicetochangethis."inmyanswer?(Itiskindofburiedinthere.)Icompletelyagreewithyouabouttheuseoftonetovarythemeaninghere,andyouhaveprovidedsomeusefulelaborationsonthispoint.However,Istandbymyassertionthatwealsousewordordertodothesame.Onedoesn'tprecludetheother. – BobRodes Feb28'14at15:10 +1onBobRodespositiveresponse("Icompletelyagreewithyou...").GoodAnswerists/Commentersmodelandencouragepositivetoneandcivilityforthecommunity. – CoolHandLouis Feb28'14at21:21 Addacomment  |  7 Politenessisnotinherentinthegrammar.Politenessisanattitudeimpliedbythespeakerandinferredbythehearer,andthetwoarenotalwaysaligned. Thechoiceofwhichgrammaticalconstructtousewillvaryacrossculturesandsub-cultures.InSouthAfricanEnglish,forinstance,"please"isverycommonlyplacedatthebeginningofarequest,andbecausethatplacementisnormal,thelevelofinsistencediscussedinotheranswersisreduced. ThepolitenessimpliedbyaSouthAfricanspeakermightbemisunderstoodasinsistencebysomeAmericanhearers. Share Improvethisanswer Follow answeredFeb27'14at22:19 MattClarkeMattClarke 17033bronzebadges 1 +1Thisisanexcellentpoint.Suchasimplequestioncanleadtomany"opinion"answers(andit'snoteasytodivideopinionfrom"fact"). – CoolHandLouis Feb28'14at0:55 Addacomment  |  5 Ipersonallythink"Couldyouhelpme,please?"soundsmorepolite. However,inthissituationIwouldsay"Wouldyoumindhelpingme,please?". Inmyopinionitsoundsfriendliertothepersonyou'reasking. Share Improvethisanswer Follow answeredFeb27'14at14:25 RayB151RayB151 36711silverbadge88bronzebadges Addacomment  |  4 Thereareverygoodanswersthatdiscussthesignificanceofthepositionofplease.Here,Ionlydiscuss: somebasicanalysisusinggoogle'sn-gramviewerandCOCA theshiftwithtimeofthepreferredlocationofplease(withabonuslinktosongbytheBeatles;creditforthislinkshouldgotoEmilioPisanty) 1.BasicAnalysisusingEnglishCorpora Toanswerquestionslikethat,onecoulduseGoogle'sn-gramviewer.SeeherewhereI'vecomparedthreepossibilities: pleasecouldyouhelpme? couldyouhelpmeplease? couldyoupleasehelpme? Althoughallofthemsoundgoodtome,booksforEnglishlanguagelearnersseemtopreferthelatter. Inthecomments,DamkerngTreportsthatsimilarresultsareobservedinCOCA: couldyoupleasehelpme(6hits) couldyouhelpmeplease(0hits) couldyouhelpme,please(0hits) pleasecouldyouhelpme(0hits) please,couldyouhelpme(4hits) canyoupleasehelpme(5hits) canyouhelpme,please(3hits) canyouhelpmeplease(1hit) AndthecorrespondingsearchonGoggle'sn-gramvieweryieldssimilarresults: pleasecanyouhelpme? canyouhelpmeplease? canyoupleasehelpme? Thatis,occurancesofallthethreeformscanbefound,withthelatterbeingslightlymorefrequent. Alsointhecomments,CoolHandLouismakesanumberofpointsaboutthelimitationsofcarryingoutbasicsearchesofEnglishcorpora: "Couldyoupleasehelpme"mayincluderesults"couldyoupleasehelpme[subordinateclause]."Thataddsmoreresultshere. "Couldyouhelpme,please?"requirescontext.Inspokenlanguage,contextcancomesfromenvironment.Momcarriesgroceries&askshubby"Couldyouhelpme,please?"ButonInternet,questionscontaincontext:"Couldyouhelpmewiththissentence,please?"So"Couldyouhelpme,please?"wouldbeunder-representedinwrittentextandsometypesofcorpussearches. 2.PreferredLocationoftheCourtesyMarkerplease FátimaMaríaFaya-Cerqueiroobservesinthisbookthatthepreferredpositionofpleasehasshiftedwithtime: "Thepreferredpositionofpleasebythenineteenhcenturywasclause-initial,asitiscustomaryforimperativeconstructions[...]Finalpositionwasalaterdevelopment." Shearguesthatthecourtesymarkerpleaseoriginatedfromtheimperativeexpressionbepleasedto,thatevolvedintotheimperativeexpressionpleaseto,andfinallybecamethecourtesymarkerplease. Thisorigincouldalsoexplainthepreferredlocationofpleaseinquestions.Onecouldarguethatthequestioncorrespondingtothefollowingimperativeconstruct: Bepleasedtohelpme wouldbe: Areyoupleasedtohelpme? ormorepolitely: Wouldyoubepleasedtohelpme? whichisclosertotheBeatles: Won'tyoupleasepleasehelpme? Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedFeb28'14at15:08 answeredFeb27'14at14:25 NicoNico 2,4101515silverbadges4646bronzebadges 6 3 Tomysurprise,IfoundasimilarconclusioninCOCA,couldyoupleasehelpme:6hits,couldyouhelpmeplease:0hit,couldyouhelpme,please:0hit,pleasecouldyouhelpme:0hit,please,couldyouhelpme:4hits,canyoupleasehelpme:5hits,canyouhelpme,please:3hits,canyouhelpmeplease:1hit. – DamkerngT. Feb27'14at14:35 1 @DamkerngT-Thesurprisemaybeexplainedas"Couldyouhelpme,please?"ismoreoftennaturalspokendialog,andunder-representedinwrittenform.Also,"Couldyoupleasehelpme"mayincludeextendedformslike"Couldyoupleasehelpmewiththefollowingquestion?" – CoolHandLouis Feb27'14at17:32 TheBeatleswereextrapolite:"Won'tyouplease,pleasehelpme?":) – CoolHandLouis Feb27'14at19:16 1 I'veremovedthisinfofrommyanswersinceitsmoreappropriatelyaddressedhereinacomment.(1)"Couldyoupleasehelpme"mayincluderesults"couldyoupleasehelpme[subordinateclause]."Thataddsmoreresultshere.(2)"Couldyouhelpme,please?"requirescontext.Inspokenlanguage,contextcancomesfromenvironment.Momcarriesgroceries&askshubby"Couldyouhelpme,please?"ButonInternet,questionscontaincontext:"Couldyouhelpmewiththissentence,please?"So"Couldyouhelpme,please?"wouldbeunder-representedinwrittentextandsometypesofcorpussearches. – CoolHandLouis Feb28'14at0:37 Imightsuggestaswitch:thatprimarydataisthemainanswerandhistoricalinformationissecondaryanswer. – CoolHandLouis Feb28'14at0:50  |  Show1morecomment 3 AsIseeit,wherethepleaseisinthesentenceactuallychangesitsmeaning,rangingfromapoliterequesttoanearsupplication. couldyouhelpme,please?->politerequest couldyoupleasehelpme?->addednotionofsomekindofurgency(andpotentiallyexasperation:thisistypicallyanformyoucouldseewhenaskingforthesecondtime,afterhavingaskedwiththefirstform,e.g.couldyouhelpme,please?,andlateronifyougotnoanswer,couldyoupleasehelpme?) please,couldyouhelpme?->there'sahugeemphasisonthepleaseturningthequestionnearlyintoasupplicationforhelp. Comparingtheoccurrencesofallthreeformsmightgivetherightresultonlyifweassumetheyhavethesamemeaning,whichIbelievetheydon't. Anyway,that'smy2casaforeignerwholearnedEnglishmoreinitsstrictolderwrittenformthaninitsdaytodayform. Share Improvethisanswer Follow answeredFeb27'14at16:45 GorkkGorkk 13933bronzebadges 3 1 It'spossibletoput"please"atthestartofthesentencewithoutbeingatallinsistent.Toneofvoiceismuchmoresignificantthanthepositionof"please"inthesentence. – DavidRicherby Feb27'14at23:05 1 +1on@DavidRicherby'scomment.Sentencestructuremayhavesomeeffect,buttoneandother"non-verbal"(i.e."non-lexical"whichincludestone,volume,bodylanguage)languageelementscarriesthebulkoftheemotional/attitudeinformmationcontent.DavidR,btw,Ididn'tmeantooffendinmycommenttoyouunderBobRodes'answer. – CoolHandLouis Feb28'14at19:40 @CoolHandLouisNooffencetaken! – DavidRicherby Feb28'14at22:15 Addacomment  |  1 IamfromtheUS,andwhenIwenttoEnglandIwassurprisedtohearpeoplesay"Pleasewouldyou..."becauseitactuallysoundedratherlikebegging,andIwasanoutsiderwithlowstatus.WhenmyGurusaiditthough,Ithought:well,thatmustbethemostcorrectway-putthepolitenessrightatthestart. Englishallowsamultitudeofformsandwords,withsubtlenuancesthatcomeandgoinvaryingplacesovertime.Sometimeserrorscreepin,likepeoplesaying"jealous"whentheymean"envious"(theyareopposites). Iguessthereisnosubstituteforpayingcloseattentionandgivingpeoplethebenefitofthedoubt.(Oristhatasubtleidiomaticphrase?) Share Improvethisanswer Follow answeredFeb28'14at14:52 user4787user4787 Addacomment  |  -2 Inmyopinion,Iwouldsay: Please,couldyouhelp? AlthoughitishumannatureandintheEnglishlanguagetosoftenourwordswithadverbsinordertoappearmorepolite,it'suptoyouhowyouwouldliketouseit. Remember,youcanalwaysexerciseyourrighttouseanadverb. Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedFeb28'14at7:28 user230 answeredFeb27'14at16:18 user2444074user2444074 1 1 Thankyouforyourparticipation.Thequalityofthisanswercouldbeimprovedbyusing(1)betterEnglishgrammarandpunctuation,and(2)providingmoredetailandexamples. – CoolHandLouis Feb27'14at21:27 Addacomment  |  Youmustlogintoanswerthisquestion. Highlyactivequestion.Earn10reputation(notcountingtheassociationbonus)inordertoanswerthisquestion.Thereputationrequirementhelpsprotectthisquestionfromspamandnon-answeractivity. Nottheansweryou'relookingfor?Browseotherquestionstaggedphrase-choice. 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